Monday, May 10, 2010

Countdown to DVD Release - Favorite Quotes

Quote #43

"Your going to stand me up. I can feel it. I can feel it in my bones. I'm going to be devastated."


Anonymous said...

There's so much about Tyler to discuss. What I like about this, is that it shows that he has interest in her. He didn't just go up to her because Aiden pushed him into it.

He didn't want to "get revenge" in the first place...but to placate Aiden, he could have stopped at the introduction scene and allowed her to stand him up. But he calls her.

He WANTS to engage in life, he's just been waiting to figure out how and in walks Ally.

And I love that he totally called her on just hanging out in sweat pants.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

That was a lovely scene. I loved how you could see the mellow sunlight streaming into the flat and lighting up Tyler's face as he paced the flat with his phone pressed to his ear, as if to show that Ally's arrival into his life was opening a time of unknown, new happiness for him. I love how he's pretending to be a bit cocky and joking about how she was going to stand him up - but you can feel he's probably a bit worried that it was going to be the case - why else would he remind her of the date? And how he guessed she was dawdling at home in her sweatpants. It's a happy, sunny moment. I particulary like the really natural way Rob moves. I always find him more efficient in his acting when he's moving, more than when the scenes demand that he remain static. I also love how he conveys the feeling of male cockiness and self-assurance, but also makes you feel he's a bit vulnerable as he knows very well she might turn him down or have simply forgotten about him. Of course he knows nothing about her yet, but you can feel he's nervous about the date, and that somehow he cares about it, he's already intrigued by Ally.

soozy said...

I love this....Tyler shows his vulnerable side....possibly for the first time in a long time. He cares about something! Why do I feel like it's been a while.

Gotta work but I need to think about this....I'll comment later...

Anonymous said...

I love that line!

Heidi said...

I like these moments where Tyler is unsure of what's going to happen. When the relationship starts to work out for him which is opposite of what he expects you can see him begin to change little by little. I love the transformation of Tyler from the time we first meet him until the end when he's looking at the pictures on the computer. Actually, all the characters are changed in one way or another by the time the movie ends, some more than others.

solas said...

Huh! And here I thought he was being, at least on surface, manipulative and sarcastic.

Anonymous said... thing I notice is how nervous he seems in this scene. It's quite a contrast to the apathetic Tyler we see with Aiden and the two girls in the alley or with the blonde he left in his bed. He seemed disinterested and detached in the previous encounter. For him to initiate extending the evening after those other moments was huge....

From Soozy....its easier to be Greek from my cell phone.

LTavares2010 said...

Your going to stand me up. I can feel it. I can feel it in my bones. I'm going to be devastated."

Tyler is so sweet on the phone, I agree with you all about his vulnerability. He was concerned if Ally would appear. Tyler cares about her, and I think he already had his eye on her since before the ridiculous idea of Aidan. He uses it as an excuse to approach her, just that. By the way, it is very funny the way Ally reacts to his phone call, she really would not find him or simply had forgotten even. Lovely scene, indeed.

@ WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone
I love your comment about Rob ( something to think about ), about this scene, particularly this part: "... the mellow sunlight streaming into the flat and lighting up Tyler's face..." , adorable, inspiring!!

Anonymous said...

Oops. I can't see the quote on. my phone and I got confused. What I said still applies about him being engaged in whethet or not she shows. The fact that he called tells me he was excited about the evening. It would take a,lot for him to make that phonecall.

Soozy again....

Milsy said...

LTavares2010 said... "Tyler cares about her, and I think he already had his eye on her since before the ridiculous idea of Aidan."

I agree. Recall the scene when Tyler and Ally are in class, and Ally is responding to the teacher's question. I think Tyler may have been intrigued by what she said. (It's been a while since I've seen RM, so I may be "filling in the blanks" too much!)

Given that Tyler had been just apathetically coasting through life since the family tragedy, it's interesting that he proactively sought out Ally by making that phone call.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting how Tyler's attitude toward this date changes from when Aiden first brings it up. He is resistant until he sees her, recognizes her and then willingly approaches. Then the phonecall signifies a complete about face. He's anxious to see her again...


Val said...

If he really didn't want to pursue her (for the reason Aiden egged him on), he would have not called her, maybe show, maybe not to the date even. Approach her to appease him at first, but then not follow up. But he remembered how resistant she was and feared she wouldn't show. He realized he really did want to connect with her. We start seeing a tenderness to him, which he seemed shut off to before. It was really sweet, him talking to her on the phone joking about being devastated, but actually kind of meaning it. It seemed very authentic.

jessegirl said...

Everyone...I haven't read your comments here yet..will in a minute...then respond. But, I just wanted to say, a big thanks to Karma, soozy and Rum for returning to #55 again. What intelligent, perceptive and caring people you are. I commented there yet again, at length (I can hear sighs all round), because that scene just cries out for analysis. Return yet again. I don't want validation but thoughts.
Oh, and Solas *waves* go there too and put in your thoughts. I'm dying to hear them.

jessegirl said...

Okay, I've read all your thoughts.
I think there's truth in what all of you say.
Solas, you seem to be the only dissenter.
I'm going to say that I, too, think he's being somewhat 'manipulative and sarcastic'. However, believe it or not I also believe, as many of you do, that he is genuinely interested and this is a marked difference from his apathetic existence to real life before. And I agree that his interest is genuine because he didn't need to follow up if he just wanted to placate Aiden.
But if that is the case, then perhaps he has thrown in his lot with Aiden's despicable plan because this was his chance to avoid it altogether. The phone call actually means that, in some way, he is going along with the plan.

And perhaps plain old male pride is at stake for him at this point too, amongst all his other feelings. I think, as I've remarked elsewhere, that he is a complex human at a profoundly complicated point in his life and I here some truth in pretty much what all of you say. Good going.

jessegirl said...

soozy...anonymous..get to work. ;)

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - I don't know if anyone here sees it like this or not, but I have never believed for one single moment in the whole film that Tyler ever followed Aidan's plan - not even in the cafeteria when he sees Ally for the first time, not even to placate Aidan. I don't think revenge was ever in his plans. I don't think he ever tried to manipulate Ally or hurt her. If he does, then it never shows in the film. I think someone commented elsewehere that for the first time in his life, he was on unfamiliar grounds and not in control of the seduction game and of the relationship. He never really tries to engage in Aidan's stupid plan. That's how I feel, at least. Any one sees it differently?

jessegirl said...

Rum...Oh gosh darn, you're incisive mind, or your gut has called me out. No matter what I said in my previous comments, I actually agree.

This still doesn't negate Solas' comment, because, even with more genuine intentions, he could still use manipulation and sarcasm both the way most people do when they enter relationships and navigate them.

But, and this is me saying: 'yeah to analysis, but let me get back to MY gut.'
What my gut always told me is that Tyler was genuine and never tried to hurt Ally and that Aiden's plan screwed him up because there was never a time when he could, later, disclose the truth without spoiling everything. Pursuing a real relationship after years of living marginally because grief paralyzes you is complicated enough without adding a revenge scheme into the mix.

Funnily I always felt, as you do, that Tyler didn't set out to hurt her. When she quickly stomped out, I understood. But he didn't pursue her, defend himself; it was Aiden who approached Ally to bring about reconciliation. It seemed like, with Ally gone, Tyler was back to square one, paralyzed again. And there's no escaping the guilt he felt.

But Rum, if he didn't go along with the plan at all, why did he feel guilty? Is he so ready to put himself down?

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl : "yeah to analysis, but let me get back to MY gut". Guts... :)) That's exactly what I meant. I'm being 100% intuitive in this particular scene, I don't think I even tried to analyze it. It's just intuition... Same thing about my feelings that Tyler never tried to use Ally for revenge or never followed Aidan's plan.
I have no answer to your question about his guilt, but I do remember we already talked about that in another post, the one about Neil confronting Tyler in his flat. I think Tyler is just feeling guilty because he never told Ally that he knew her father and that Neil beat him up and sent him to jail. He's feeling guilty because he knows that sooner or later things will go wrong: he can't meet Ally's father, but if his relationship with her goes on, as it seems it will, then he can't avoid meeting Neil forever either. And then Ally will discover the truth, at least about the beating up and how he and Aidan were together in the street brawl and were sent together to jail. She will know Tyler lied to her about certain things - and then she might put two and two together, even if he never tells her explicitly of Aidan's plan. Tyler has put himself in an impossible situation. Ultimately, I don't think it's really about his going along or not or just a little with Aidan's plan, because we know he would never have tried to hurt Ally anyway. It's all about Ally's father and the facts that Tyler hid from her from the very beginning. Well, that's my theory at least. Or - maybe we've actually uncovered a weakness in the plot? Who knows? :))

Anonymous said...

I think he did agree to Aiden's plan or he wouldn't have been standing with him looking for Ally. There was a moment, no matter how brief, that he went along with it. He said it was something he was gonna regret.

That's where the guilt comes from. That's why he doesn't defend himself. He can't deny that at first his intentions were malicious.

Still a lacrosse game

Milsy said...

My favorite quote is #55. I just posted my comments on it.

Patti - Are there "alerts" that let us know when people have posted to this board?

LTavares2010 said...


ITA with your comments about Tyler.

Anonymous said...

"Tyler has put himself in an impossible situation"

He has because he's a self-sabotager. He doesn't believe he's worthy/deserving of goodness, so he creates situations in which he either cannot win (lying to Ally, confronting his father) or there is NOTHING to win (work/school)

jessegirl said...

Rum...If anyone can find a hole in the plots, you can.
Karma...You mean in a subconscious sense, right? I also think he doesn't think he's worthy. Not sure about the rest.
Anonymous...We all know Tyler feels guilty. Guilt is one of his big issues, in general, because of Michael. And, yeah, he does go along with the plan, if even for only a minute. He still acts on it. And Rum and Karma, his initial if half-hearted involvement in Aiden's plan and subsequent guilt mean an impossible situation which he didn't get himself out of until it was too late.

Heidi said...

Just adding a few additional thoughts: Tyler was so reluctant to Aidan's plan that in my opinion I don't think he truly set out to use Ally to get revenge against her father. He seemed to have went along with Aidan's idea at first, but it was just as a "go along with my buddy just because" kind of thing.

instntkarmagirl-Tyler might also set himself up for defeat so he can't hurt any more on a deeper emotional level. If he knows there's little or no hope than won't be too disappointed in the outcome.

Anonymous said...

Heidi- Exactly. Knowing that you're going to fail, knowing that it's going to get messed up, is comforting for someone who has issues with the unknown.

Tyler has set up his life to be the same pretty much everyday. He has set it up that he doesn't have to really care about much.

Jesse- re: subconscious sense
Yes. He doesn't do this purposefully and I don't think he sees it, but it's there.

Look at the beginning scene where we meet Tyler. It's anniversary of his brother's death and he KNOWS where he needs to be, and yet, he's sitting outside smoking a cigarette with a half empty bottle of beer while some girl he doesn't care about is asleep in his bed.

He couldn't have set an alarm? Would he even NEED an alarm?

But he doesn't get ready until Caroline calls him, even though he has to KNOW how it'll look like. He has to know that his father will be there.

To me, that's sabotaging one's self. Mouthing off to Neil, was also the same sort of thing, no matter what his conscious intent was, he knew putting his hands on a police officer would result in something.

I do not think that Tyler meant to hurt all, but he didn't mean to fall in love with her either.

But instead of coming clean to her early in the relationship when he realized that he kinda liked this girl, he doesn't do it until Neil accuses him of using her. He doesn't do it until Neil says he doesn't love her.

His whole confrontation with Neil was a front. He says he did it for a "bet" but it was NEVER a bet. Even when Aiden suggests it, it wasn't a bet. Why does he lie to Neil about it? Because somewhere inside of Tyler's brain, he wants it to get back to Ally. He wants Ally to leave him. He wants to believe that he's not worthy.

By having Ally's love and trust, his whole world is thrown akimbo. He has to walk on uncomfortably new ground and give up part of his grief and begin to live again. That's PAINFUL.

So Tyler sabotages. Tyler gives up. Tyler is unwilling to even call her to TRY to explain. Aiden has to do it. Why? Because Tyler feels, not just guilty for lying, but that he's undeserving of her love and trust and respect.

He's got such a quiet acceptance of his solitude. He lost his best friend and brother. He writes to a dead brother because he feels as though there is no one else to talk to.

*shrug* that was an early morning ramble. Sorry.

solas said...

I am sticking with sarcastic and manipulative. If he were merely insecure and wanted to check if she was really coming, he could have called and said, 'Just reminding you of our date' or 'looking forward to seeing you' or 'Do you need a ride or can you get there on your own?' Etc. By verbalizing as he did, he was indeed exposing some insecurity, but mostly was expressing himself in a way that manipulated her into guilt, feeling badly for him.
As for Aidan's plan, Tyler could bave said, Nope-I am not doing it. He went along in part because there was some initial interest there (she had remarked intelligently in class) and then after speaking with her briefly, his interest was increased. But he was definitely playing with her, toying with her, and the phonecall was still in that context.

jessegirl said...

karma....I really liked your analysis! Sabotage.
Thanks for reminding us that he really didn't need Caroline's wake-up call; he knew what day it was. And much later, when he doesn't go after Ally or try to explain himself, fight for her,at all, he wants ot hang on to his sense of worthlessness because it is comfortable, as you said and real relating is painful territory but also means he'd have to get out of his grieving funk.

Solas...Hmm. And she didn't manipulate him? She led him to believe she was underage and was toying with him at their initial meeting too. She was being careful, as all women need to be, when a new man enters their life. And toying is part of that. I think all of us on this post have gone around and around when it comes to pinning down Tyler's culpability in the 'dare'. I think he's so lost that he acts without thinking and finds himself in emotional places he didn't know he'd get to, and I think he is very nervous when getting to know her. She was going to stand him up. He called her on it. They were both manipulating each other, as people do when they begin a relationship. There's a lot of testing going on on both sides, testing the waters.

solas said...

Jesse--I don't see what she was doing as manipulation at all. She was trying to avoid him, to get out of being involved with him, and was only interested with his comment about not being committed to anything. To me there is a difference between guarding and protecting one's self, keeping one's self closed and therefore safe, contrasted to keeping information from someone that is apropos to that person and a possible relationship, and also in contrast to getting someone to do something, especially out of guilt. I see him manipulating her almost every step along the way (like that kiss by the cab), even as he began to care, even though he was also interested. Keeping from her that he knew her father, and that they had a scene, was a supreme manipulation underlying everything else, even as he grew attached to her.

jessegirl said...

solas...Okay, I get the distinction.

The 'supreme manipulation', as you call it, was the whole point of the boys' terrible revenge plot. But don't you see why he might not have kept it from her when he grew attached to her? It would have become harder and harder for full disclosure the closer they became. It was selfish because he would likely lose her anytime he confessed and he didn't want to. Only when Neil's visit pushed the issue so that he would have no choice, did he follow through. I see that so clearly.

But I know that doesn't negate the other, little manipulations. I do, though, see many of those differently, as boy and girl testing, as I said before.

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