Wednesday, May 5, 2010

Countdown to DVD Release - Favorite Quotes

Quote #48

"She drew you a picture! She drew you a picture, and you didn't come."


Heidi said...

This is one of my fave parts...when he finally explodes at his father. You could feel his anger, yet he seemed somewhat defeated at the same time because even though he's trying to get his point across he believes his father won't understand his feelings. He exposed himself emotionally which put him in a more vulnerable position. When he leaves he's still hurting from all the pain he was able to express which leads us into the angry sex scene with Ally.

jessegirl said...

Yeah Heidi... segue to angry sex...
The...'she drew you a picture...quote.
Kat, I knew that was coming.
At work now. Might return later to see what's up.

Carrie said...

I love this scene! I could really feel Tyler's rage and frustration. This, to me, showed just how great an actor Rob is. He's amazing, and he's only getting better!

Anonymous said...

Next do the "If I give up, he wins"
"who wins, the attendent?"
"The giant freakin' panda."

Because, to me, he's talking about giving up in another way. This is Tyler's whole thing. If he gives up for one second, he feels his father has won...even though his father is not the true villian, he's a fabricated bad guy that Tyler has used to release some of his emotions because he can't be mad at his brother, even though that's who he's TRULY angry with.

God I love this movie.

LTavares2010 said...

This scene is powerful. Tyler confronts his father when he does`nt attend to Caroline`s exposition. It`s a passionate discussion, Tyler releases his anger and Charles doesn`t resist and reacts. It is one of the masculine moments of the film, too much testosterone in the air. As Tyler can`t unburden all he feels for his father, he unloads his anger and tension, making love with Ally. This moment with Ally is very dramatic and erotic at the same time, the couple is in absolute sintony, she feels he needs her, emotionally and phisically, and she gives him what he needs.

jessegirl said...

karma...I agree that Tyler is so intense because he feels he can't give up. Good point.
And that his father is somewhat of a stand-in, the one Tyler is allowed to rail against because you can't to that to the dead. But I think there's a lot more going on too.

I think Tyler is afraid he'll become his brother. Perhaps he'd looked up to him as a kid and for Michael to admit life had defeated him, meant Tyler might also mimic his revered brother. Tyler might think Michael had latched onto some life wisdom and that caused him to kill himself.

I know it sounds strange, but that's what Tyler is trying to figure out (among other things, of course, 'cause he's really confused, on many levels). He wants to know, as those close to all suicides do, why. What, about life itself, was so very horrible, but also so very real and true and unavoidable, that a person would want to give life up to get away from it? What?
And that maybe this esoteric knowledge--horrible, true, real and unavoidable--would cause Tyler to come to the same conclusion.

Perhaps the male-testosterone thing is simple enough. If Tyler gives up his Dad wins. All about winning. Go, team, and all that.
But, if giving up is really about giving up on life, it is much more desperate. The fight with the father is the easy stuff, hiding the really hard stuff, the horrible truth underneath, and THAT is what Tyler is really terrified of. That, somehow, Michael was right.

Looked at that way, the male sparring in the boardroom is Tyler hoping his Dad will prove Michael wrong, Tyler not giving up on his father, Tyler wanting his father to save him, so that he can finally surrender to love and find the contentment and surety Michael never did.

I said it before: Tyler is begging in that scene. He is desperately trying to find a reason to live. His male rage is in service of that. Winning, if it means anything to Tyler, means consciously deciding life is worth living.

Oh yeah, the physical lunging and all that--which, by the way, Charles initiated in the most contemptuous way--is testosterone scrapping it out, trying to bring all the crap to a head. It's actually a cathartic, good use of testosterone, which Ally's rational objection couldn't--and shouldn't-- contain.

'She drew you a picture and you didn't come.'
It's the pathos Tyler wants to escape. If your father doesn't think you, or your sister's gift, doesn't count for anything, then you become pathetic, a nonentity.
Tyler feels he is a nonentity. He has a dead-end, minimum-wage job, only audits at college, and--until Ally--commits to nothing.
Well, almost nothing, because Caroline is the exception. How can Tyler pursue his passions, develop his gifts, if his father will only dismiss them like he has Caroline's gifts? So it is crucial that he force his father to pay attention to his little sister. By 'saving' her, he saves himself.

Told you I might revisit this post.

Anonymous said...

I agree. Yeah, Tyler is definitely afraid of becoming Michael, and that would mean let Charles take control.
And this leads to the greek myth: Cronus castatrates his father Uranus, considered like a overriding god. All this story is so much about Tyler's 'ambition' at the beginning of the film: he wants to take control and overturns his powerful and influent father. The son dethroning the father...


WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

I would just like to add that there's something terribly helpless and childlike and awkward in Tyler's opening line " she drew you a picture and you didn't come". After all we've just witnessed - the scene when he rips the picture from the wall in the art show, then violently pushes Ally away from him in the flat, then rides his bike in silent, determined anger through the New York night -you would expect something more powerful from Tyler. And yet - when he at last crashes into the boardroom (you can imagine he probably had to be rude to Janine, too) - everything is deflated. All of a sudden, he looks just like a helpless little boy confronted with his father, his words fail him, even his angry body language is gone. He's a child again, speaking in a an almost childish way. Of course it's Caroline's drawing but it's almost as if Tyler had come in saying "Daddy, I drew you a nice picture and you didn't even look at it". The moment he steps into the boardroom, Tyler has already lost the fight against his father, in front of all these onlookers. At least, this is how I understand this scene, which has given me a lot of trouble, because for a long time I didn't get it and didn't like it very much - I thought it was one of the weakest of the film. But now I see it in a very different way.

Anonymous said...

I agree with everything everyone's said here about the boardroom scene and the panda scene.

I think both really define Tyler in a way that paints him as both needy and strong. He's got the will to live, to not take himself out of his sister's life (who adores him the way he adored Michael) the way his brother took himself out of his life...and the board room scene shows him really reaching out.

Yeah, there's testosterone, but I don't think that the conflict was as simple as anger. There was a need for ANY emotion from his father.

I LOVE Charles as a character because he does what a lot of people do after a great loss, he cuts off those around him and focuses on something HE can control, like work.

In the end, we see that Charles loved his children more than Tyler wanted to admit, but unlike Tyler who felt everything ALL THE TIME, Charles had to cut off his emotions in order to survive.

He LOVES his children, he just couldn't focus on them. To me, his character is very "manly", you know, don't cry, don't show emotion, don't show weakness, and yet, he doesn't abandon his children. He still shows up to Michael's grave, he still bails Tyler out, he still funds Caroline's life and he knows when their birthdays are...but he can't be an ACTIVE participant in their life because it hurts too much.

And don't forget, Michael committed suicide after starting at Charles' firm. What guilt must that have given him? What does that do to a person?

And then to know your other son found him? His marriage broke up, as they often do after a tragedy of this magnitude. Charles lost everything, even himself, when his first born took his own life.

And Whyistherumalwaysgone has it right. Tyler is a child. He's a sad little boy who wants his father to make everything okay. He NEEDS someone to tell him that it'll be okay because he doesn't KNOW it.

I love this movie and have found myself silently thanking everyone involved for bringing it to the world.

And thanks for this site. I've really been wanting to share thoughts with people.

jessegirl said...

This is so great, this little dialogue we've got going. Thanks, everyone. Because we guide each other along, to more and more insights, and also show each other different perspectives. Thanks for coming back to this post because it's an important one, I think.

But when I meant Tyler was afraid he'd become his brother I meant that he would discover and agree with his reason for taking his life. It's more complicated than just allowing Charles to take control; it's allowing Michael's reality to become Tyler's own, and follow in disastrous footsteps. I meant the hard stuff underneath, which is way beyond the father/son supplanting aspect. I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

Rum...Oh yes, I agree about Tyler's childish begging and fighting both. The helpless little boy. That's the pathos.

But, I don't think he's lost this fight with his father at all. I think that this was the turning point of Charles' attitude, not the cruel incident against Caroline.
You see, I think that this is where--as a result of the verbal and physical altercation on both sides--Tyler makes a real difference to his father. I think this is where he begins breaking him down, and that it is one of the things he was supposed to do because only HE could do it.

Yes Charles fights back, and very well, being the 'king'. But Charles very much needs this conflict to be expressed, the better to deal with his own internal conflict and guilt over Michael. He knows, on a subconscious level, that he needs Tyler to scrap with him, call him out. Charles knows this. Michael caved. Tyler fights. Yeah, he fights like the man/child he is, using all the weapons of the young, like instilling even more guilt the self-righteous way the young do: "She drew you a picture and you didn't come."

karma...Yes, I think your analysis of Charles is spot on. And that's why he needs Tyler to do what only Tyler can do -call him out. Boy does Charles need this, and badly. (You're right about his 'type' of grief, which desperately needs someone to bring it up from its hiding place.) So, while in a way I agree with you and Rum, there is something more complicated going on.

I think Charles secretly, perhaps subconsciously, is relieved Tyler has confronted him. (This parallels Tyler's subconscious wish that Neil beat him up, because he wants to be punished for his treatment of Ally.) Because it forces him to look at himself again, at his behaviour. I think Charles' change in attitude is illustrated by the incident with Caroline, but the internal change came first and Tyler was the catalyst for that. Yes, Tyler is the sad little boy who wants reassurance, but he efffects this change in his father. And that is no small thing. And it is, actually, a manly thing. It's paradoxical that this 'childish' behaviour helps Tyler become a man.

Because he's giving Charles a way out of his guilt-laden grief, and that is to look at his other children, acknowledge them and celebrate their lives while they all have time. By the end of the movie we know how little time Charles has to look at Tyler.

jessegirl said...

Don't blame you if you're sick of my yammering, but...
Oh and by the end of this scene, however we might analyze it, my heart breaks a little for both of them, and yet is, paradoxically both upset with them yet proud of them. Weird, eh.
I love them both a lot more after this scene.

Anonymous said...

I love this, all of it. Thank you.

soozy said...

Ok...gotta jump in...I heard Rob and Pierce talk about this scene in an interview...young lion versus old lion and it's so true. Tyler is so angry...not necessarily at anyone but just angry and his father is his target. When they get into this in the board room, Tyler shows his youth....he's a sweaty mess and can't articulate his thoughts well...thus the 'she drew you a picture and you didn't come' line while Charles is very pulled together and articulate.

I think this is a prime example of Tyler fighting everyone else's battles but his own. He never goes at his father on his own behalf but rather in defense of his sister.

Anonymous said...

-soozy "I think this is a prime example of Tyler fighting everyone else's battles but his own. "


jessegirl said...

soozy and karma...Gotta disagree. Although he is genuinely fighting for Caroline, I think he's also using that issue, with her drawing as the physical focus object, to fight for himself. He was always fighting also for himself, IMO.

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