Saturday, May 8, 2010

Countdown to DVD Release - Favorite Quotes

Quote #45



"There are sins of omission and sins of comission. I've forgiven myself. You should do the same."
~Aidan

32 comments:

LTavares2010 said...

There are sins of omission and sins of comission. I've forgiven myself. You should do the same." (Aidan)
Reading this quote I began thinking if Aidan don`t have similarities with Charles, in a certain way, of course. Maybe he reminds Charles when he was young: practical, objective, ambitious (in a good way), has sense of humour, apparently irresponsible, he loves people related to him but in his particular way, he loves Tyler.
Tyler is more sensitive, fragile, he tries so hard to seem stronger but he isn`t, Aidan is stronger than him, he hides his emotions and that is why they are good friends: their opposite characteristics. The same happens with Ally. She is more like Charles. Aidan and Ally have so much in common with Charles, that is what I observed (remember that are all only my thoughts, only this, please).
I loved all the dialogues of Tyler with Aidan and this one at the roof is very good, especially in the final of the scene when Aidan calls Tyler to help him with the dumbbells , hilarious.

soozy said...

I agree, LTavares. Tyler tries to be strong but hides behind his stubbornness. He's so busy fighting other peoples battles and not dealing with his own demons....

I loved this exchange between them...and as much as Tyler wants to leave Aidan there, pinned beneath his own ambition by how much weight he THOUGHT he could lift....he doesn't as evidenced by the next scene when they walk into the apartment laughing.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@LTavares I agree with you too although when I saw the film I didn't reflect very much on the things you could deduce of Aidan and Tyler's relationship in this short, hilarious scene. I think I just got carried away by the mere fun of it and the vivid comical relief the scene afforded after Ally's painful episode with her father slapping her. Although we have seen Rob is able to express a wide range of emotions, I found him particularly good in these funny, ironical scenes. It reminded me of him as Daniel Gale in the Bad Mother's Handbook or sometimes of Art in How to Be. I also really admire the wonderful way the Aidan/Tyler duo functions. I'm repeating the same thing over and over again, but it all looks and rings so true.
But if I were to analyze the scene a bit more, I find it interesting that we see Tyler with his guitar on his knees, but still not playing it. We never get to see him playing. It's really characteristic of him: he's got a job he doesn't really care very much about (he seems to be pottering about stacking books all day long, not getting anything really complex to do), he does not get any grades at the NYU (we never see him write anything in class, he just sucks at his pen and doesn't take notes), - he doesn't really live his life. So although he has the guitar, we never see him play it, as if the instrument were dead and silent in his hands.
In this funny scene I also think we can guess that Tyler has started to realize he has feelings for Ally and that he may be worried she might end the relationship there, thinking he's a jerk after what happened - letting her get her drunk and sick and probably getting her in trouble with her father. So he's probably feeling rather confused and worried, and I would say he looks a bit hung over too... :)) It was a great scene, both as a welcome, lighter comical episode and as a way to learn more of Tyler's feelings and his relationship with Aidan and Ally.

jessegirl said...

soozy...welcome!
So, you think Tyler ends up helping Aiden up?
I've never lifted weights like that and I thought you needed a spotter. Could Aiden have taken a moment and done it himself?
I know they walk into the apt. laughing but does that mean Tyler relented? Probably.

Whether or not he did, he said--quote for another day?--something about penance. Now that, I thought, was the salient point. There's Aiden forgiving himself, figuring what they're doing to Ally is a sin of ommission, therefore, not so bad. Actually it is a very active sin of commission. Tyler is playing with Ally's feelings with, at first, very nefarious reasons. Commission. All of it instigated by Aiden. Commission.
Aiden is very ready to forgive himself when the results of the plan have not even been realized, before the full consequences present themselves. I thought Aiden's words were so premature. Tyler knows this and knows the sin is greater than Aiden makes it out to be. He knows penance must be involved if one is truly looking for redemption. Remember, Tyler has guilt in his mind all the time because of Michael. Always. He's very attuned to it. Why is Aiden so ready to slough all that off? Because he's not yet the man Tyler already is.

And, whoa, you both think Tyler is weaker than Aiden. I think Tyler is by far the stronger one. He uses his fight with others as a way of fighting his demons. They are his tools, granted sometimes misplaced, but often his targets deserve it. Confusion though, yes.

LTavares...*waves*(and I love your thoughts)...I think Tyler's sensitivity is exactly one of his strong points. Perhaps it is the way we are defining strength. You see, I think that Tyler's moral sense is more refined, his sense of guilt over what he's doing to Ally, for example, whereas Aiden thinks it's a joke; to him the revenge is just a game. And this childish irresponsibility makes him weaker.

I continue below.

jessegirl said...

Sorry, my post was too long and I had to do part one and two.

Tyler's moral compass is so tuned he struggles with everything. He knows it's a sin of commission. He knows if one seeks redemption one must do penance. He loves Aiden, the joker, his good buddy, but Tyler knows. It's that moral strength which might seem to some like weakness on the outside because of the stupid scraps he gets into, (like with Neil at the beginning) and because he broods while struggling with his demons, but it is exactly that which is strong.

On the other hand, Aiden's 'strength' comes from the same type of denial and neglect Charles employs; yes these two have a lot in common, thanks for pointing that out. If Tyler had lived he would have been stronger than all the other males in the film. He takes the time to feel it all and to actively fight to force issues which Charles doesn't have the strength to do. I am not minimizing the emotional burden of Charles' situation; it is horrible and pulls many people under. But at some point he has to face the full force of his grief or lose his other children as well. (Now I'm getting into territory I've talked about elsewhere.)

The whole Hawkins family is fragile. It's a toss up which is more so.
Diane, the mother, appears the most broken--we don't see enough of her--because you can see how clingy she is with Tyler and how hysterical when Caroline is hurt. A mother who loses a child is an enormous figure of grief. But, unlike Charles, she has allowed the terrible grief a place and that is so important. With her, it could go either way, but, frankly, after she loses Tyler too, much of her life would be consumed with sorrow. It would be painful to watch her.
My point here is that although the Hawkins and the Craigs are all fragile, unlike Aiden (the only non-family member in this drama), that doesn't mean they are weak. And just because that fragility is evident, like in Tyler, his mother, and sometimes Caroline, doesn't mean it is not working under the surface within Charles too. Fragility puts them on a knife edge but it doesn't define weakness. Do you see what I mean?

Ally is really the strongest one. That's another topic, deserving its own space.

Heidi said...

I love the lighthearted scenes, especially the ones with Aidan and Tyler. These funny moments balance the movie out; it's not too serious which could have made it drag along at too slow a pace.

jessegirl said...

Rum! You and I were composing our comments simultaneously! Mine was too long. So, what else is new?

Yeah, he wasn't playing the guitar, because, as you say, he doesn't really live his life. There, again, I beg to differ. No, he doesn't do anything with commitment. You know what he's doing though, right? How he is living his life? Grieving and figuring that out. Before he deals with that, I think we all know he can't really do anything else, even commit to a woman.
That's why the end is so huge. Finally, he has committed, finally, he's got his father to listen, finally, he's forgiven Michael and himself. All of that is accomplished. And it is no mean feat. It is huge. At the end he is ready. So ready. And he dies. Period.

jessegirl said...

Heidi..*more waving*
Sorry I made the light scene heavy. I laughed too and thoroughly enjoyed it. But the quote was what I addressed, so it went to a heavy place. Really enjoy Aiden though. -Waiting for the 'erectile dysfunction' quote.

Heidi said...

@jessegirl I strongly agree this "Fragility puts them on a knife edge but it doesn't define weakness." Fragility is too often perceived as a weakness because it makes a person more sensitive. I think if anything it can actually make a person stronger. Even though Tyler is struggling on many levels, he has this determination about him to protect the relationships to those he is closest to-his sister with the bullies and Ally's father, for example. I also think it took a lot of courage for him to stand up to his father. When he didn't show up for Caroline's Art Show it pushed Tyler to that point where he had to confront him, even if he knew his father wasn't going to listen.

Heidi said...

*smiles and waves back* Love everyone's comments! I am so glad I didn't leave this site. Thanks Kat for posting all of these quotes! :) *hug*

jessegirl said...

Ladies...any thoughts on my last two thoughts on boardroom guote (#45?)?? I went all over the place there. Such an important scene.

Heidi..yes that's what I meant about fragility and strength. Tyler is determined, so different from Aiden's unfocused life. Aiden, remember, is failing at least in one course we know of. He drinks, and never just one drink, which is funny but to be remembered. Nothing wrong with his levity and partying at 21; it's typical. But remember, only when Tyler is gone does Aiden buckle down and take his classes seriously.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - Yes, you do have a point, it's all about Tyler not wanting/not being able to commit to any aspect of his life. But I still differ with you as I still think he's not living his life. Remember Aidan calling him a "zombie" in the Strand bookstore? To me this is exactly what Tyler is. To me (again, this is only my perspective) he's not really alive, because in this stage of figuring out his grief, he has put everything on hold. He's just there, physically there, doing basic things - sort of studying, sort of working, sort of playing music, having one-night stands - but he spends most of his time "figuring out", as you say, writing and writing endlessly in this diary of his, to his dead brother. Speaking with a dead person. The only "real" grounded thing he does is maybe taking care of Caroline, but both share a lot of common grief... so that's a full circle again. So, yes, I agree that Tyler finally learns to commit in the end, that he decides to do so, and that, tragically, he decides to awaken to life, to live his life, on the very day he's doomed to die. Oh dear, I'm not sure if I'm really clear...

jessegirl said...

Rum...Interesting. Thanks for bringing up the journaling. That's so important. That's one of the things he does which prove he is alive.
Just like we are blogging away about a movie, for god's sake. Why?

Tyler's journal is one of his ways of dealing with grief and to work out the forgiveness and EVERYTHING. The journal is his most important tool. That's where he's living his life, internally. (Thanks again.)
He is really alive, but, not engaged with the world in front of him, which are two different things. He is not a zombie. But--and I know this from bitter life experience--the grief IS HIS LIFE at that point in time.
The whole non-life thing--the sort-of job, school, girls, etc.--that is a marginal existence which he chooses so that he can do his real work, settle his grief. And the zombie thing, well, people grieving deeply see the whole world through a veil; they don't really engage. That's grief.

When it really matters he does act and become engaged. Caroline's bullies yes, but everything about that relationship shows Tyler at his most engaged. His mother, well, he avoids her, I think because her brokenness is too painful to be around. But he acts on her behalf too, to get Charles to come, or try. And of course the boardroom scene.

True enough Aiden is annoyed that Tyler can't seem to party or do buddy things and that's what any friends of mourning people will feel.

And I know Tyler is trying to find a reason to live, and this is all mixed up with why Michael decided against life.

But I want to emphasize that the endless writing is of utmost importance and will help him get to that 'real life' which you think defines living. The 'speaking to his dead brother' is of utmost importance. He won't get anywhere until he settles this to his satisfaction.

Boardroom scene is actually quote #48 ladies.

jessegirl said...

Sorry if I'm going on about this.
May 8 is a difficult day for me.
This is the anniversary of the day they found my dead son's body, after he'd been missing for six months.

I am very familiar with the value of journaling, with the zombie marginal existence, putting 'real life' on hold, all that.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - Yes, thanks for clarifying this. "He is really alive, but, not engaged with the world in front of him, which are two different things." That's what I meant when I said he wasn't living his life and he was just acting like a zombie - a zombie in the outside world. But he certainly is not a zombie in his inner world, his grieving world, which is his true world, his most important world, the one he has to solve everything in before he can emerge into life again. Thanks for making it clear - it's actually helping me with another theme I was struggling with - and now I think I might have a solution, thanks to you! **big hugs**. And, yes, I know we're blogging about a film - or are we? Are we not rather blogging about life, its joys and its sorrows? What do you think?

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

Oh I see you've just posted again - I'm so sorry for your loss, jessegirl. It is indeed a terrible day for you. I wish so much I could help, do something. All I can offer is share... and let you know I think of you.

jessegirl said...

Yes, Rum, we are blogging about "life, its joys and its sorrows". Most definitely.
I can't believe that this film has done this!
It's freaking amazing!
That's why I sometimes say things which seem, well, 'out there'. You know, the things about 'powers' helping, and all that. I'm not some religious weirdo--nothing could be further from the truth--but for this film to be a catalyst for so much, to take so many people to such profound places, including analysis I never thought I'd do the first time I saw it, is freaky and awesome--a more precise use of this overused but lovely word.

jessegirl said...

Rum...It helps.
xo

LTavares2010 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LTavares2010 said...

@jessegirl. Sorry for your loss. A big hug to you.

LTavares2010 said...

Great thoughts, girls. I am reading all of them. They make me think a lot.

Heidi said...

@jessegirl Sorry to hear about your loss, too. *hug* Write away! You are not at a weirdo at all...I am sure writing is very cathartic for you. I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts regardless of whether I agree or disagree. The different perspectives are refreshing and these discussions could go on and on...don't think I could ever get tired of them. This film is pure greatness on so many levels and it has allowed me to meet many wonderful people who also love Remember Me.

One other thought from me on Tyler's journal: I think he also uses it as a way to communicate with his brother. He can be closer to Michael through his journal. By using the journal Tyler can find peace and learn to forgive his brother.

soozy said...

I'm loving this....btw.

By thinking of Tyler of weak..I think more a out how he seems to be able to take up other peoples causes but not his own. The board room scene being just one example, the ally with the fight another and throwing the fire extinguisher through the door another. He is perfectly willing to fight other peoples battles while ignoring his own. Yes he journals...he's talking to his brother through his writing. It appears that Michael is the only person he can communicate with and open up to about his feelings but Michael can't respond....that to me is interesting and says a lot about Tyler.

He has a series of one night stands...no stable relationship with a girl, he really doesn't have any friends other than Aiden, he's at odds with his father, can't confide in his mother because she's as broken as he is and Caroline looks to him for strength and answers...her father figure in Charles' absence. Aiden is really his only friend and his room mate and I doubt he even knows the depth of Tyler's issues...

That's what makes this scene and this quote interesting to me...Tylers entire life is about omission and commission.

jessegirl said...

LTavares and Heidi...
Thanks for your kindness. I'm alright and I only draw attention to my personal life (not without reluctance either) because it might help you understand how my experiences contribute to my views.

Heidi... Yes to your comment about the journal.
When my son was missing I wrote, presumably TO him, at least three journals; they were really tributes and remembrances (memories already).
And his friends started a kind of tribute journal too, into which friends and family members 'spoke to' him; they are beautiful messages to a boy already dead yet still missing. All these things helped us all to cope and work through things.

jessegirl said...

soozy...
No, I don't think Aiden knows the depth of Tyler's issues either. Tyler hasn't confided in him. Whether it is a male thing or that it is so internal that Tyler couldn't express it aloud to a friend, I'm not sure. Could be both. Maybe Tyler doesn't trust Aiden enought to go there with him. It takes great maturity to handle that level of grief if you're the friend. And if you're the one mourning you haven't got the emotional energy to take chances on people who might be callous inadvertently. You have to trust them with your most painful experience; so you go with your gut. Plus, it's possible Tyler wanted to keep Aiden free of it, to have one person who would treat him as if he were normal as a barometer of what the 'real world' would expect of him.
Don't know, could be all that.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - Thanks for sharing this about the journals you wrote to your son. I did the same thing when I was younger - for someone else, not so close to me, but I did and I can truly understand. I admire you for being able to share, and I want you to know you bring so much to our discussion. I never tire of reading your comments, you give me fresh, rich perspectives.
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents regarding Aidan's knowing about Tyler's issues: @soozy, @jessegirl, here I must respectfully disagree with you. Aidan is clearly very close to Tyler's family, Caroline knows him, he's invited to the family birthday party, he goes on holidays with them, he goes spontaneously to their house when Caroline has her hair cut by the other girls. He sees Tyler every day, he sees him writing in his diary (Tyler never hides that he's writing, something I used to keep secret), there's pictures of Michael all over their place and objects which belonged to him too. How could he not know? I just think that maybe he would not speak openly about it and ask Tyler if he wants to talk about his issues and share, as women would do, but he rather tries to steer him away from his pain by doing things (going out,partying)- as guys will do. Maybe Aidan doesn't know everything, but he certainly knows a lot, he just reacts in his own down-to-earth way to try and help Tyler cope with it - to try and get him back to what Aidan considers to be a normal life for a young guy. What do you think?

jessegirl said...

Rum...
You are so right. I wasn't thinking this one through. Aiden, of course, knows a lot. (Bop me on the head.)
However, even though the journal is all over the bed and Tyler rolls bits up periodically with an elastic and stuffs them into a drawer, do you believe Tyler shares the contents with Aiden? I wouldn't put it past Aiden to read bits when Tyler isn't home, actually, to figure out what is wrong with him, but I don't think Tyler reveals the contents of the journal openly. No, I don't think they'd 'share', as women do.
And Aiden's interventions are on-going, it seems. And he is obviously fed up with Tyler's morose demeanour. I think Tyler really needs Aiden's different take on things, even if he makes fun of them.

The contents of the journal is one thing I've always been dying to know. While Tyler is writing, there is sometimes a voiceover narrating the words, but there's so much no known. It doesn't matter for the story really though.

You mentioned the pictures of Michael. I commented on them on the old Memories and Remembrances post and was curious what people thought. Wanta go over there and check out my comment? Maybe you have but had nothing to say?

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - I don't think Aidan knows what Tyler writes in his journal, of course, and I would even go so far as to say he doesn't want to know. He's certainly not stupid and can imagine that it's dark stuff, or, as he would probably put it, "introvert bullshit". To him Tyler writing in his diary is just a sign that his friend is still struggling with his issues.
I'll check your comments on Michael's pictures - there's so many exciting things to read on this site, I may have overlooked them!

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@jessegirl - I answered you and commented on the Memories and Remembrances post, your analysis was very interesting.

solas said...

To me, the jounraling, the near-zombie state, the keeping life on hold, are all actually necessary parts of the mourning process. It actually isn't healthy n the long run to 'get back on the horse'- to plunge back into life as if nothng has happened, because SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED! And to make like it hasn't, is denial. Unfortunately, most adults cannot afford the time to disengage, to put life on hold; life is there with all its responsibilities shaking you away from your loss. But the loss, of course, is always there, and if it is not dealt with, if the real pain is denied or swept under the rug, it will come up later to bite, lke a monster forming under that rug. Journaling is one good bride from the abyss to world of pain and loss of a loved one, because for at least the moments of journaling, the loved one is still there, you still have that thread of attachment and conversation.
BTW_- re the guitar--I had thought it was either Michael's guitar, or that since Michael played the guitar and that was what he wanted to do, not work with his fahter, that gave meaning to Tyler holding it but not playing it.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

@soals Hey there! Long time no toal, it's good to see you here, Solas. I think we all agreed on the mourning process and role of the diary and got to the same conclusions as you do here.
As to the guitar, I think I read somewhere (but where?) that it is Michael's guitar, at least I've always assumed it be so. Tyler having kept it and playing on it sometimes - although we never get to see him playing - gives it a stronger meaning.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

Sorry for the typos - I meant "@solas" and "long time no talk".

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