An Unofficial Remember Me Site: Countdown to DVD Release

Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Countdown to DVD Release - Favorite Quotes

Quote #55

You think, that whatever you feel in your heart, I don't also feel it in mine?"
~ Charles Hawkins

27 comments:

jessegirl said...: Oh, Charles, what a tough row to hoe.
I'll not analyze him here, even though it's a good opportunity.

I just wish he could have hugged Tyler ONCE. Just once. Standing there outside the car on that Sept. day, watching the firestorm of the towers, surely he will be filled with more regrets, that being one of them. 'I want to hug him and it's too late!'

I await others' comments on Charles.; April 28, 2010 at 3:13 PM
LTavares2011 said...: @jessegirl

I`d like to see Charles give at least a hug in Tyler. It is perfect what you said about Charles.
For me he seems so hard with himself and thinks that is the way he must be with his children. No gesture of caress does not mean no pain, he sublimates his grief, with work. Different generations, different thoughts.Tyler, Caroline and Michael are all very sensitive people and how was Charles when he was young? What the world did with him? He never stops from working, he thinks about working all the time, even in this scene that I love, it is almost funny to see Charles giving orders to people in the boardroom as he discusses with Tyler. Always working no matter it happens. Sincerely I have my doubts about for how much time Charles`ll be different with Caroline but are only impressions, just this, impressions. I thought about all this because of the great acting of Pierce Brosnan. Pierce and Rob really impressed me a lot with their acting. Their scenes together are powerful, tense.
by the way Jessegirl, I`d like to give a big hug in Tyler also.; April 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM
jessegirl said...: LTavares...the hug, you and me both.; May 2, 2010 at 6:33 PM
WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...: I remember everyone in the audience is always riveted :)) when Charles explodes, his anger is so well-acted that it feels he's telling you - the audience - off. I personnaly sat back a little in my seat, I felt kind of stunned! It probably reminded of my Dad when he was angry and yelling at me as a teenager when I had done something really wrong... Great acting!; May 3, 2010 at 5:28 AM
jessegirl said...: I know this comment is late, but I was going over the old posts...

Charles is an enigma to me in some ways. What you said, LTavares, is so true. But what bothered me when I first saw the film and even now, reading the quote, is this. Why does Charles insist on having his executives hear all this? I answer my own question every time I ask it too, because he needs a buffer between him and Tyler, because if Tyler and he were in a room by themselves at this point there's no telling what would happen. A physical fight, perhaps, or worse, breaking down and crying, the catharsis he so badly needs.

Still, all those people witness, not only Tyler's tirade, but Charles saying the 'what you feel in your heart' line. I think, though, he is shouting it out at his son, not to make him understand, but to grandstand, or to counter what he thinks is Tyler's grandstanding. I really think Charles is being every bit as childish as Tyler in this scene, now that I have thought it out a bit more. He is grandstanding, damn him. Charles, you snake.; May 9, 2010 at 9:28 PM
jessegirl said...: I mean, Charles is the elder, the one who is supposed to be a role model, not lunge at his son in front of a room full of people. I'm really mad at him now.

Someone revisit this post and give me another point of view.; May 9, 2010 at 9:30 PM
soozy said...: I think this is a generational difference...pouring yourself into your work to escape your grief. I think that's the story of Charles's recent history. Prior to that, he was trying to escape his upbringing. Remember the line when his secretary bought his coffee? She spoke to Tyler...'you can take the boy out of Brooklyn....' This man seems to be always running from something.

As far as the boardroom witnesses.....I'm not sure it was not to publicly humiliate Tyler. It also came off as a dismissal to me...you're not important enough for me to stop what I'm doing....this won't take long.

Pierce was brilliant but it was not one of Charles's finer moments...HOWEVER....it does set things up so we see his softening after this...his moment in the stairwell with Tyler after he bails him out of jail from vandalizing the school or the moments he spends with Caroline later in the film. Pivotal scene for his character for sure...; May 9, 2010 at 10:25 PM
Heidi said...: I believe Charles would be much more uncomfortable with a confrontation like that if it were just the two of them. I think it might be both a grandstanding and dismissal move...Charles was showing his power yet he didn't want to stop the meeting and discuss things privately. Charles seems to hide behind his work; he uses it as an excuse so he doesn't have to deal with the problems within his own family. Maybe Charles was also afraid to deal with his own feelings. It's so much easier to attack another person rather than to have to confront your own personal demons.; May 9, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Heidi said...: Almost forgot-would have LOVED to see Tyler get a hug, too...especially when I knew what was coming.

Or to at least have his feelings acknowledged rather than brushed aside. He deserved that much at least.; May 9, 2010 at 11:05 PM
soozy said...: Heidi....Like father like son...you said that you felt it was easier to attack another person rather than to have to confront your own personal demons...that's how I feel about Tyler. He'd rather fight Caroline's battle against his father than his own...he's hiding behind her conflict rather than dealing with his own.; May 9, 2010 at 11:46 PM
jessegirl said...: thx, soozy and Heidi, for stepping in here.

If it was to publicly humiliate Tyler, if it was a dismissal, if it was grandstanding as I am now convinced it was, the quoted line about what Charles feels in his heart seems to me to be an inauthentic one. And exactly because he shouts it out so convincingly, so dramatically, it just seems that Charles wants the limelight, applause even. If any line should be genuine it is this kind of line. Using it to grandstand is despicable. It all makes me respect him less.

Now matter how we analyze Charles' feelings, his inability to fight his demons, using his work to escape them and to flee from his children, and so on, what he does to Tyler here is, to me, almost unforgiveable. To treat his tormented, begging boy this way and demand the fight have an audience, is terribly cruel. No matter what Charles' issues are, for love to be so absent, for contempt to take its place, is unforgiveable.

As for the rudeness of Tyler interrupting: Well, his father never stops his work for him so it's inevitable he'd have to interrupt. He phones and has to hang on the line while Charles handles business. That was another time Charles was out and out sticking it to Tyler.
This father is so childish.

At first I thought Tyler's line about Charles' other children possibly killing themselves was over-the-top and needless button pushing. But now I see that even though it was meant to provoke, it was also a cry for help, the kind suicide prevention experts say you should never ignore. Possibly Tyler was on the edge himself, although I think he was too analytical and too strong, frankly, to follow in his brother's footsteps. Now we're back to the journal, in which suicidal thoughts would have been expressed if they were entertained by Tyler.
Remember I was wondering if Aiden ever read the journal? It would possibly be a necessary thing if anyone really thought Tyler was likely to go down that road.

And, as I've said elsewhere, Tyler's rant does make a difference, I think. This is the scene where Charles is really tested as a father, and I think he fails miserably, and he knows it. I think later it stays with him.

By the way, I think Pierce was great in this scene, and in the whole movie. Perfect.; May 10, 2010 at 2:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Okay, here goes.

Charles is one of my favorite characters in the film. His pain is so buried that we have to struggle to see it. We must ask ourselves what has shaped this man into who he is?

Imagine having a son for 22 years. A son you love, a son you push to grow up, to give up childish things because you feel that you can help him make his way in the world. Imagine being proud of the creativity of your son and imagine how frustrating it is to have that son come to you and say "I can't make a living playing guitar."

Imagine giving that son a job and wanting to continue to provide for his (financial) well-being.

Then imagine the phone call.

Michael's dead.

What do you mean, he's dead? What do you...

He hung himself. Tyler found him.

That's some deep, searing pain that you can't get away from. Imagine the burial. Imagine his homelife.

Charles losses EVERYTHING except his work. It's not greiving people's fault when they can't get a marriage to jive after that. He probably felt quite inadequate, insanely guilt-ridden.

Imagine looking into your wife's face everyday and thinking that you're the one that caused her to have to bury her baby.

I don't think Charles was dismissing him. Charles didn't ask him to leave. Janine did. I don't think he was humiliating him. Charles also put Tyler on speaker phone on the birthday call.

Work is Charles' protection. The people in the boardroom are his protection. If it were just Tyler and him, or Tyler, Janine or him, Charles would be forced to go deeply internal and face the grief, face the pain.

Charles is a front.

People who don't care about their children do not have them as their screen savers.

Charles is emotionally frozen and that's not his fault. Generationally speaking (and keeping gender in mind) people like Charles don't go to therapy. Charles doesn't process his emotion. He spends more time at work to get away from them.

When Tyler touched the mouse with his finger, I started crying. Even before I saw the pictures, I knew they would be there. SOMETHING would be there.

Charles spent every day looking at pictures. Pictures are a window to the past, to happier times.

Charles lived in the past with his children because he couldn't live in the present. Even att the diner when he cuts off Caroline, I think it's because he fails to realize that she's not the baby in the picture he looks at so often. He doesn't realize or recognize that she's got her own thoughts and ideas.

I love Charles. I love Brosnan's portrayal of Charles.

He buries the pain and takes the anger of his son because anger is easier to deal with than the true wounds that both he and his living children have.

I feel the pain he feels intensely and someone else says it, "He'll be sad he didn't hug Tyler". SO true, but you can see it in his face as he stares up at the building. The looks is "Oh, no, not my boy, not again."

Charles breaks my heart.; May 10, 2010 at 5:15 AM
Anonymous said...: One more thing:

We can view Charles through Janine. Janine seems to have been with him, to know the family, for a LONG time.

Janine is a good person. Janine understands Charles. Janine wouldn't stick by someone she thought was an ass.

I think through Janine we can see the goodness of Charles.

And quite possibly, she might be the only one who is a true witness to his pain.; May 10, 2010 at 5:20 AM
WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...: I'm not sure how to interpret Charles's behaviour here. I don't think we must see him only as grandstanding here and wanting to humiliate Tyler. Perhaps he does, in a way, but it's not his only motive and it might only be a superficial stance, so that he won't get ridiculed in front of his business partners. Remember too that Tyler was very harsh with him at dinner and kept atttacking him and rudely dismissing Charles' every effort at conciliating him (the childhood memories of a shared passion for the Yankees, Tyler dressing up as Lou Piniella for Halloween, etc.). Tyler insults him constantly in the Oak Room and then leaves him standing there telling him it's not enough - as if he was saying, Dad, you've failed us once again. Which he has, in a way, but not totally - he might still make it to the art show, there's a slight possibility that he might, but Tyler never believes that he will and makes it very clear. So I can understand that Charles is tired of having been rebuffed all the evening and having his nose rubbed in all the things he's been doing wrong, and now - he has to cope with the intrusion of his screaming son, so maybe he overreacts. Still, I can see signs of his being deeply moved and wounded although he doesn't express it like Tyler does. Look at Charles's face and how his eyes blink and contract in pain when Tyler delivers this terrible line about how all his remaining children are going to hang themselves too - it's like Tyler physically hit him, you can see him wincing in sorrow and pain.; May 10, 2010 at 5:26 AM
soozy said...: I"m not sure it wasn't that Charles was so deeply lost in his own pain....so deeply protected by his own wall...that anyone could get to him. He saw his wife in pain and the son who found Michael suffer....he probably felt he had to be their rock and to him that meant void of emotion.

I think he felt that everything he did, he did for his kids so why would he not want his sons to follow in his footsteps? Michael tried. Tyler did his best to do the opposite by not really taking classes and not really having a job...living in squalor with no direction. I'm sure that drove Charles crazy....this confrontation was the climax of all that emotion.

When Charles makes this comment...about feeling in your heart...this is the turning point in the conversation where Charles loses his composure. This is where his own anger...not necessarily his anger with Tyler....starts to emerge and his facade crumble. This may be the point where Charles is actually his most honest....; May 10, 2010 at 6:55 AM
jessegirl said...: Yes, Karma, people with screensavers like Charles has do love their children. Yes, he is emotionally frozen. And yes, I too can well imagine his particular pain.

Perhaps his grandstanding comes out of everything you pointed out so well, but it is still grandstanding and that is still his only remaining son practically crumpling before him.
I DO understand his pain. But I still think this is the time....this is the time.
(As an aside, some reviewer said this was a cliched--can't do the french accent--scene but I think it is anything but.)

I think all this points out the danger of burying your grief as Charles has. It is more dangerous than Diane's fragility. This way of handling grief destroys. While everyone grieves differently and has to find their own way and while one must be very careful criticizing that, seeing it portrayed in a film and thinking about it through the characters' actions as we are doing makes me realize how destructive some ways of handling grief can be.

That doesn't mean that I don't feel for Charles. I absolutely DO. He is a complex and good man. As Rob has said, there are no villains in this story, and everyone has good and bad sides. That is one of the strengths of the film. And I think, all of us noticing scenes like this from so many angles is wonderful.

I am not team-Charles or team-Tyler. There's no room for such a juvenile way of thinking about all this.

Karma...thank you for a wonderful analysis!; May 10, 2010 at 4:00 PM
jessegirl said...: karma...I loved your comments about Janine. Spot on, IMO. We should probably have a post just about her.

Rum...Yeah, Tyler can be a pain in the ass; talking about his behaviour and attitude in the Oak Room, for example. (Ally did an excellent job of making the talk light, and avoiding confrontation. She can handle Charles.)
Tyler, too, is not just a big boy; he's on the cusp of manhood and should be a bit kinder himself. And you're right. I think Charles' attitude--the grandstanding I abhor so much, still--possibly was a result of the cumulative effect Tyler's needling at the restaurant. These people are all so well-rounded and the beauty of the film is that, through a few select scenes, we see so many sides of the characters.

I guess I was very invested in Tyler early on; perhaps his pain was more obvious and we saw him more than any of the others. It's really his story and framed as such.

soozy...yes I think Charles was honest with this 'feel in my heart' line. But inauthentic. Hmm. What is the difference? He really does feel it, but he uses it in this scene to put his son down and to make himself look good in front of the audience he demanded stay there.
I guess it is this demand to have an audience witness Tyler's humiliation that really bothers me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Because whatever Tyler has done to upset Charles, I think Tyler's insistence on bringing the issue to a head is what Charles is fighting with everything he's got, and he's willing to fight dirty--his scrapper Irish roots--to do it. This is the pivotal scene. Tyler is adamant; some part of him KNOWS he's got to get through to his father, that he absolutely has to. And Charles, as Karma has analyzed so beautifully, needs to keep up his wall. If that hard shell/wall he has built is breached, the siege is over and it crumbles, exposing Charles and forcing him to face it, really face it.

I think this is so very necessary, what Tyler does. Those walls had to be broken down. Because, no matter how well we might understand and sympathize with Charles' behaviour and his way of coping, it poisons everything. It destroys. If it continued the fragile family dynamic could dissolve. What Tyler does here is so important that the whole family structure depends upon it. It is that thing the Gandhi quote was referring to. HUGE.

And everything changed after that.; May 10, 2010 at 4:28 PM
WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...: @jessegirl - "I guess it is this demand to have an audience witness Tyler's humiliation that really bothers me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it". You know, at first I couldn't agree with how you explained Charles' motive for making his partners stay and witness Tyler's humiliation - but now you have swayed me, and I'm beginning to think you are right. I'm going to have to rethink about it... however, there's one thing I've just thought about: Tyler knew perfectly well he would be confronting his father in a full boardroom, or at least he knew that his father would not be alone to confront him, yet that never deterred him. Actually, Tyler doesn't seem to see the audience at all - all these people might as well not be there for him, he never even glances at them or acknowledges their presence, if you except maybe Janine. He certainly gets humiliated by Charles, but I have a hunch that he doesn't care if other people see it. Maybe Tyler knows that his father is incapable of confronting him alone and face to face, and so by showing up in front of an audience, maybe Tyler is indirectly telling his father that he's inadequate and behaving in a cowardly way, by refusing to take him on alone. That just an idea that has occurred to me, I'm not sure it's quite clear... but it might develop into new, interesting directions - i.e, who's the real winner in this confrontation? Or maybe there is no winner and it's a lose-lose situation? (can you say that in English? not sure...) What do you think?; May 10, 2010 at 5:19 PM
Milsy said...: “You think, that whatever you feel in your heart, I don't also feel it in mine?" is my favorite line in the whole movie. It's what leads me to the following interpretation of the relationship between Charles and Tyler.

In a boardroom filled with people, father and son seemingly confront each other. Yet, Charles and Tyler are actually “alone” and confronting their inner selves. It is so much easier to fight back against something external than to struggle with one's own turmoil and "demons." The fact that they are in a crowded room is inconsequential to Charles and Tyler, both of whom are brimming with anguish. By saying “I don’t also FEEL it in MINE?” Charles is revealing something personal of himself. It is assumed by everyone that Charles must be hurting, but I doubt that he ever talked about it with anyone, let alone with his employees. Yet he now does it in front of them. By bringing up that he was the one that discovered Michael hanging (ugh, my eyes instantly well up just thinking about it), Tyler divulges a very painful, private moment in a room full of people. (NOTE: he didn’t tell Ally this either – just as Ally didn’t tell him about being a witness to her mother’s death until someone else, Charles, was around… but I digress.) Tyler is opening up to himself and others that HE ALONE had to suffer that moment. HE ALONE lived in that moment.

Charles also exclaims that his job enables him to provide the best life for Caroline. I see that as Charles justifying to HIMSELF his workaholic behavior. Work is often a coping mechanism used to hide from other issues in life that are perhaps more important and demand more emotional investment (into spouses, children, family in general). Tyler yelling at his father for neglecting Caroline is his way of saying, “Dad, you weren’t there for ME when I needed you. You are doing the same to Caroline!” Tyler is admitting to himself that he, too, is deeply hurt by his father’s neglect.

That boardroom scene was a personal cathartic event for both Charles and Tyler, not as father and son finally confronting each other, but as individuals coming to terms with their own pain. I may be way off base with this interpretation. Feel free to tell me what you think of it! (BTW, I love these discussions. Patti just informed me that they have been going on for a while. I wish I joined in earlier!); May 10, 2010 at 6:59 PM
Anonymous said...: I personally think that having a confrontation in front of his peers, employees, and clients would be much more embarrassing for Charles than for Tyler because Tyler (pardon my language) doesn't give a shit.

I have more thoughts on this, but I'm wiped from a long day...so I wouldn't be able to explain very well, but...

I think it's easy to see the bad in Charles, but it's necessary to see the good. He doesn't shove his son out of the room. He invites him to have his say. And hell, if Tyler doesn't mind the audience, neither would he. I don't know, I see the goodness in Charles. He was very engaging at the Oak Room. He never made Ally feel less than anyone else, even though he knew that she wasn't rich. He never hid behind false charm and he was TRYING.

The fact that he actived tried WAS enough because it was more than Tyler could give. Yeah, Tyler invited Charles to dinner, but as a way to manipulate him into doing something for Diane and Caroline.

Charles and the rest of the characters are best left unjudged.

I love these discussions. Thank you all for contributing to them. You have no idea how badly I've wanted a place to discuss these things.; May 10, 2010 at 8:48 PM
jessegirl said...: Man I love how i think I'm pretty smart on my own but someone smart points out something else and I get smarter, and so on, -and that happens to each of you here too. By the time we're done, we'll all be f*cking brilliant! The power of brains working together. Did I explain that well?

Rum....You first. Tyler did know. And Tyler didn't care. Tyler's overriding concern was that it all had to be done, right then, whatever the circumstances. It had to be done. And no, he was so focussed on what he had to do with Charles that no one else existed for him. Thinking about it more, no, I don't think he felt humiliated--(I've actually been Tyler in a similar situation and didn't feel it, so this should have occurred to me from the get-go.) Thank you for that! But, again, my story-sticking and all that, my point is that Charles was well aware that he put his beloved son in a most humiliating position; he insisted on it. Sorry, it is not Charles' finest hour.

However, Tyler is beyond it all. Humiliation means nothing to him. He has gotten to a point of no return and he WILL follow through, damn the consequences. He will suffer anything if he needs because he will do it, now. And by the time he gets there he is beyond everything because he must get his father to listen, must break that wall. I cannot emphasize how crucial this is to the whole story, to his family, to Tyler personally. It is pivotal.

Milsy...Welcome! Great ideas! The more we talk about this scene the more I realize how very complex it is psychologically and structurally, with the symbolism of the art (the administrator here posted). Yes, Charles and Tyler, two men yet both in some way acting childishly. Yes, Tyler is speaking for Caroline but has deep-seated feelings of self-loathing as a consequence of his father's neglect. And this neglect could have started before Michael died. The reasons for the suicide are sketchy but you can bet there's a lot more there. I mean that Charles, instead of re-evaluating his emotional neglect of his children, intensified it after Michael died as his misguided attempt at self-preservation. And Tyler was neglected during his hormonal teen years, which were interrupted when he found Michael.; May 10, 2010 at 10:55 PM
jessegirl said...: And now you, Karms, you sweet thing...
Despite what I've said--and I'm still sticking to it--I love Charles. But he is the father, the role model, the guide, the one who should love and respect and take care of his children unconditionally. And now, as a consequence of his emotional neglect, and probably emotional coercion--Michael working for him when his heart wasn't in it--Charles is reaping what he's sown, Big Time. And he's resisting for all he's worth, because if he allows Tyler's viewpoint at all his whole house of cards will fall. And for years, Charles has been hiding behind those cards. This was something this man needed to have dealt with long ago. But nobody's perfect and he is a good man. I only cast stones because Tyler breaks my heart, just crushes me.

Yes Tyler's dinner invitation was manipulation. But that is not always bad. How could he get his Dad to come to the art show? How? He promised his mother and he knows she and Caroline are counting on him. Tyler is the protector of both of them at this point, and, actually, we must remember what a burden that protection is when he feels worthless to begin with. Diane is counting on him. She is so needy. (There's a whole story there which the filmmakers left untapped.) I think Tyler's manipulation is a small price to pay if he can get his Dad to the art show. Man, did you see how Diane had set all her hopes on her wounded son to save them? High expectations there.

I love all the characters, and see their complexities, but I will judge some of their behaviours, and even the intentions behind them. As I think Charles' grandstanding was cruel, I do know it was much more. Also, I fault Tyler with lashing out at Ally before he leaves on his bike: 'Think you can take care of yourself for just one hour', or something like that. And, typical male, when he returns, she comforts him but he doesn't apologize. So, just because we understand their pains and why they make poor decisions, just because we love them, we should not hold back on judgement. They are not perfect. They need to be called out if need be, otherwise they wouldn't be in the mess they are in. Otherwise they wouldn't be human. Otherwise there wouldn't be a story.; May 10, 2010 at 11:01 PM
jessegirl said...: Damn, I know everyone is sick of me by now but I made a mistake, only human you know.
Here's what I forgot to paste in.

All the characters have flaws and behave badly at some point, every one of them. Again, we see this because this film brilliantly showed it in merely 2 hours. They are real, rounded and all sympathetic. But I will judge them when necessary.; May 10, 2010 at 11:05 PM
soozy said...: Back from lacrosse and on my laptop..sigh. Finally.

One thing...men think in terms of respect. That is as important to them as love is to us women. Given that...I see two men who have no respect for each other or even less for themselves. I think they are both so wounded and broken, each in their own ways, that they don't know how to find their way back...how to fix what's broken. I'm not convinced that they don't believe that the other is the one who needs fixing, absolving themselves of any wrongdoing or guilt.

You've heard the expression blinded by anger? I think what someone said about Tyler being unaware of the others in the room is true. He didn't care that he was riding his bike on the city streets late at night. He didn't care that the boardroom was full....he only saw his father and his anger clouded his judgement.

Charles has been painted as this ass through the film to this point. This scene is where we see his wounds...realize that he's human and hurting too. Until this, he hides it very well. With this one sentence...we see his vulnerability and his pain.

Have I mentioned how much I'm loving this today?; May 10, 2010 at 11:49 PM
jessegirl said...: Rum...The winner in this confrontation? Well, they both win, but don't know it until later. It is like a wound that has festered and finally been cauterized and cleaned. You are still in pain and you still have a wound, but the cleansing is working through you and changes you. You just aren't aware of it immediately. I said in the #48 'picture' quote--the twin of this one--that Tyler's actions worked here.

soozy!...Had a nice day? I was off so had time to play.

Okay, men and not respecting each other. Hmm. I think, as you have pointed out, that they seem to see each other's faults. When you say you think, because each thinks the other needs fixing and therefore neither feels guilty, did you mean within the confrontation specifically?

Because, as I see it, they are both so consumed with guilt, it clouds their perception of everything. Oh yeah, Tyler was 'blinded by anger' and was acting recklessly. But it is the guilt which drives them both; it is a big part of the festering wound. They are also blinded by guilt. IMHO.

So much has led up to this. But Tyler did what needed to be done. He and his Dad didn't know it because their wounds still hurt like the dickens immediately afterwards. Hence, Tyler's angry sex. I should watch the film again to verify. But after that, if I recall, everything shifted. Because it was done.; May 11, 2010 at 1:46 AM
soozy said...: Jessegirl...they are both consumed with guilt about Michael but when it comes to each other, I don't think their is any guilt about how they acted or not acted. I think they both think the worst of each other. I'm not sure they believe that the other has any redeeming qualities at all.

Janine asks Tyler not to give Charles a heart attack when he goes to his office after the first arrest. It's almost like this is a familiar scene repeating itself. Not necessarily the arrest but the conflict between the two; May 11, 2010 at 6:46 AM
jessegirl said...: soozy...'the familiar scene', their conflict: Okay. I think, after the fact, that Charles would feel guilty treating Tyler that way, because he would remember he is a father. But perhaps that feeling wouldn't surface immediately. What would the scene in the boardroom be like after Tyler leaves, I wonder?
I think Tyler would just feel sad and defeated afterwards, impotent, hence sex to reassert his manhood.

I respectfully disagree about the 'redeeming qualities' statement, bedcause it is so all inclusive and final. I think Tyler is really upset and disappointed in his father, probably thinks Charles doesn't love him. But if he didn't care he wouldn't bother waving that drawing at Charles. He just wouldn't bother. And if Charles didn't care, he wouldn't have the photos on his screensaver.

They just have to get through the muck, the wounds, to find each other again. The boardroom scene is both a low point and a turning point. It is a test too, and maybe that's why Charles is so ugly in it; he is doing everything I've said previously, but also resents this test and shows contempt for it.; May 11, 2010 at 8:34 PM