Friday, June 4, 2010

Countdown to DVD Release - Favorite Quotes

Quote #18



"You didn't find him. Okay? I found him."
~Tyler

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Probably the saddest line of that scene (with Charles's one that was "do you think what you feel in your heart, I don't feel it in mine?" or something else like that, I'm not sure).
Yeah I think that line kind of resolves the mystery about Tyler. You just realise and understand at that moment why Tyler is so sensitive, rebellious and haunted by the absence of his brother...He was hit first and straight by the suicide of his brother: he found him, what a trauma! That all explains and justifies his fears, doubts and his anger! He has to struggle every moment against the memory of his dead brother, and more now that he's 22 too!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I said everything even though I'm sure just after I would have posted my comment I would be like "oh damn, I forgot to say this..." ^^
Oh yes, something else (I knew it^^), there's a parallel with Ally: she says "I was there" in the restaurant, he says "I found him" just a couple of scenes later. They both had the experience of the same traumatic situation, they can heal thanks to each other! (well, that's what happens: that reminds me of that fantastic Tyler's big smile in the coffee shop just after they spent their first night together. His grin was so genuine, he seems...happy and also already falling for Ally)

Have a good day

Sarah

soozy said...

Sarah, definitely an 'Aha' moment for the audience. It explains so much and in that instant we all feel Tyler's pain. He's reminding his father too.

I kind of took this as a statement by Tyler of placing blame. He never comes right out and holds his father responsible for Michael's death; for forcing him to get a real job. I wondered if in his mind, Tyler felt it would have been just for his father to find his brother's body...I dunno. Just rambling.

It does show the similarities between his experiences and Allies even if they were two different causes of death, they were still sudden...with no closure and no chance to say good bye. So we have a suicide and a murder. The third way to lose someone without closure is an accident. We all know what's coming.

To me, there are 5 ways to lose a loved one; natural causes, terminal illness, suicide, murder and tragic accident. This movie deals with the ones where there are no chances for good bye. And therein lies the message...

LTavares2010 said...

"You didn't find him. Okay? I found him."
~Tyler

How much time Tyler have waited to say those things to his father? This is the moment when he unloads all his sorrow, pain and resentment for the father, feelings that he bears within him since the death of his brother or even before it. The episode of the drawings exposition of Caroline is just the excuse he needed to vent.
It is a very passional moment and this time Charles doesn`t control himself and reacts in a way that increases the anger of his son.
I imagine that Charles and Tyler always had problematic relations between them before the death of Michael and maybe he was the favorite son of his father. The loss of him (perhaps the only link of the father with the other children, especially Tyler) signified a breakdown in family dynamics.
I think Caroline, for being the youngest, has never had the attention of the father as her two brothers had and Tyler has always served as a father figure to her, that`s why the film portrayed so natural and strong the relationship of them.
In fact, Michael's death came only worsen what already existed.
It is a powerful scene, especially by the interpretations of Rob and Pierce, and the presence of the magnificent painting by Franz Kline at the scenario just increases in me the idea of tension between the characters.

soozy said...

LTavares2010, you think Michael was the favorite? I guess I didn't think Charles took the time to have a favorite much like he didn't take the time to appreciate Caroline's talent. If he did and it was Michael that he favored, I'd guess it was more because Michael gave in to Charles demands about a job, making him a good son in his eyes. And maybe that's part of Tyler's rebellion. Maybe it isn't rebellion at all but survival. If he gave in to his father, he thinks he'll end up like Michael.

No, I don't think Michael was the favorite. He was a musician and not a successful one. I'd hardly think that set well with Charles. Just my thoughts....

LTavares2010 said...

@soozy

Michael being the favorite son of Charles is just a theory of mine, based on the fact that Michael was a musician but it seems he was doing an effort to satisfy his father, working with him. I think he was unhappy doing this. Tyler doesn`t seem to have had a better relationship with Charles in the past, but Michael, I think he had.
Anyway, I think there are many feelings hidden in the minds and hearts of these two different men or as Shakespeare have said in Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
The greatness of this film are all the readings we can do of the characters, the situations, the scenarios. Always there is something to find, every time we see it. Just my thoughts too. Maybe you are right, Soosy

Jen said...

"You didn't find him. Okay? I found him."
~Tyler

This was a very telling moment in Tyler’s tirade to his Father about how he has basically not bothered with him or Carolyn since Michael’s death.

I felt that Tyler was furious with Charles because he was the one who found his
brother and he knew Michael had given up his loves of music and his dreams to go work with Charles and obviously couldn’t handle it and killed himself. I think Tyler wanted to confront Charles to show him how disappointed he was with him for not only not being there for Michael but not being there for Carolyn at her opening.

I think Tyler wanted Charles to hold him in his arm as if he were a little boy and like a grieving father tell him everything was going to be fine. In reality I think Tyler wanted to give his Father the responsibility of being the one to handle his pain and anger over Michael’s death. Charles didn’t instead he expressed his anger and grief and a volley of words were tossed around and nothing was settled--just more hurt.

jessegirl said...

Well, back to the boardroom scene, with all its riches. If you go back to quotes #48 and #55 you’ll see we’ve been pretty insightful as a bunch on this already. (Newcomers and lurkers, you should visit those posts ‘cause they’re worth it.)

@Jen,... Tyler did want to be held. To me, it was one of the most immediate things I thought of about this scene. There was so much pain and anguish and the only way to cut through the crap would have been for that father to hop over that huge conference table and embrace his suffering son fiercely. The father is responsible for comforting his son. That’s part of the deal, painful as it is, complicated as it is when the father feels guilty.

soozy...’the third way... is an accident’...
Actually, at first I thought, yeah, damn. But actually, Tyler is murdered. That plane flying into that building was murder on a huge scale. No accident. And when a young person is cut down like that, it is tragedy on a huge scale. No son should die before his parents. For Charles and Diane to lose one son to suicide and one to murder is the most horrible psychological torture one could imagine. (But yes, soozy, ‘no chance for goodbye’.)

LTavares...Yeah, the painting. Tyler, white with dark hair, white shirt and black tie, the painting behind him black angry strokes on white. Which one of you incredible commenters talked about the foreshadowing?? It might have been in the blog post on Art in the movie way back (on April 10). Anyway, I can’t see that painting behind Tyler without becoming incredibly sad all over again. Or look at him blowing out his candles. Jesus, Charles, go get him. For god’s sake, hug the poor, tortured soul, your son. Help him. –You can see I am very emotional about this scene.

LTavares2010 said...

Parents and children

Singer: Renato Russo ( from the Brazilian Band Urban Legion/Legião Urbana )
Lyrics: Renato Russo
Song: Renato Russo/Dado Villa-lobos/Marcelo Bonfá

Statues and safes. And painted walls.
Nobody knows what happened.
She threw the window on the fifth floor.
Nothing is easy to understand.

Sleep now.
It's just the wind outside.
Want lap. I'll run away from home.
Can I sleep here with you?
I'm afraid. I had a nightmare
I'll just come back after three.

My son will have a name of saint.
I want the most beautiful name.

We must love people like
No tomorrow.
Because if you stop to think,
Actually there is no.

Tell me why the sky is blue.
Explains the great fury of the world.
My kids that take care of me.

I live with my mother
But my father comes to visit.
I live on the street, I have nobody
I live anywhere.
I have lived in so many houses that I can not remember more.
I live with my parents.

We must love people like
No tomorrow.
Because if you stop to think,
Actually there is no.

I am a drop of water
I am a grain of sand.
You tell me that your parents do not understand you.
But you do not understand your parents.

You blame your parents for everything.
And this is absurd.
They are children like you
What will you be when you grow up?

( the original in Portuguese: http://letras.terra.com.br/renato-russo/75858/ and a video of the song including some images of the 11/9. It was a surprise to me when I saw it. Synchronicity .)

LTavares2010 said...

@jessegirl

I remember of that song because of your words.

InstantKarmaGirl said...

*sob!*

InstantKarmaGirl said...

To be fair to Charles, we don't know what he was like before the suicide.

His screensavers show that he was not only a happy father, but an active dad.

I personally think his disconnect was a result of his son's suicide.

Perhaps he DID put too much pressure on his sons to succeed, which is what some parents do.

But maybe, just maybe he didn't TELL Michael to quit music and come to work for him, perhaps he suggested it.

Tyler is an unreliable perspective. He was just a kid when it happened, and I doubt with his pain he grasped the full scope of why a twenty-something would do something like that.

I've said it before, but I think Tyler's really angry with his brother, but his dad is both easy and will to be his magnet for anger and rage because Charles feels guilty, whether he is or not, he just.

Just like Tyler.

jessegirl said...

LTavares...that song...oh man.
Karma...I know Tyler’s is not a reliable point of view. The young man thinking he’s right, and not trying to see his parents’ point of view—which he does with his mother too. People always defend Charles after I’ve made a comment about this scene. He’s a good man with flaws. But for me one of his flaws is glaringly evident during this scene.
For me the bottom line here was just the damn tragedy of men, always ready to fight instead of, damn it, just expressing plain love. I’ve said many times I think this scene is where the barriers come down, but that father and son aren’t aware of it until later. The fight as catalyst. And given that they both behaved the way—IMO—men behave they don’t take the alternative, which is the embrace, then, no doubt tears, and catharsis in that manner. A mother would just enfold her child, grown or not, in her arms, comfort, take on the blame even if her child could not yet see her own point of view. He would come to see it later, after the comfort.
Tyler, damn it, needed to know life was worth living. It was life or death for him and he was fighting tooth and nail. But a loving embrace would have taken away the pain and validated his existence like nothing else at that point. That’s why, even though I think the job he does here gets done, it’s so f*cking heartbreaking.

InstantKarmaGirl said...

jessegirl - Totally not trying to defend anyone somuchas trying to portray a different version. I don't think I was responding to you individually as much as trying to combat the general concenus that Charles made Michael give up music, which we don't know to be true. Likewise, we don't know why Michael started up with his father's company and we don't know why he killed himself.

That's the true lasting wound of suicide is that many times, there's no real answer, just conjecture and theories.

If you ask me, Michael had a chemical imbalance in his head and while he loved his family didn't feel comfortable talking to them about the pressures he felt with growing up. He was stuck somewhere between youth and adulthood.

Suicide is something that is close to my heart and I think that it's simplistic to think that his father forced him into a life he didn't want.

If I defend Charles, it's because I believe that just because parents want their version of what's best for their children, doesn't mean that every parent forces it upon their child. Also, just because Michael went to work for Charles, doesn't mean he gave up on music.

Musicians are notorious for being emotional and passionate. It is clear to me with the talents these kids have, music, writing, art, that it is their form of expression and I doubt Michael gave it up just because he put on a suit.

This passion and emotionality quite possibly got stiffled not because of his father but because Michael felt as though he needed to grow up. I doubt he confided everything to Tyler, his kid brother.

I feel even if Charles played a part in getting him to accept a "real" job, it was probably not a large part of Michael's decsion to kill himself.

This is a disjointed comment, I know, my mind is going fast and while I don't think I'm defending any character as much as i'm presenting another side, I could be mistaken.

Charles is flawed for sure, just like every character in this movie, that is what makes them real and interesting.

LTavares2010 said...

All the arguments are valid: about the characters, the situations, everything. This film is so well built that fits various interpretations. We just have to make our choices according to our own observations, references and experiences of life.
What I love most in this film is that it makes people think and express their opinions and in a world where most of the human race is invited everyday to not think and to become silent, for me is precisely where lies the strength and power of Remember Me: the power of thinking, the power of the words.

jessegirl said...

Karma...I certainly did not take offense to anything anyone had said previously.
I, too, was offering my point of view. I think your speculations about Michael are very interesting. All of those things could be the way it went down, and the view that Michael probably would not have told his kid brother a lot is really plausible. Which would mean that Tyler’s view about the cause of his brother’s pain would be partial or skewed at best. There is so much we don’t know and, you’re right, with suicide there’s usually so much the family and friends don’t know. And it’s very possible that there was something like a chemical imbalance at work and, if undiagnosed as so many of these things are, it would account for Michael’s behaviour. The speculation, the attempts at understanding, are, nevertheless, things the ‘survivors’ have to cope with, and it will upset their world for a long time. The urge to know ‘why’ is so very compelling, and that’s why Tyler is having such a hard time.

LTavares...Absolutely! You are so right. I don’t see our discussions as arguments most of the time, just interpretations, as you’ve said, although, I think we all have particular viewpoints or perhaps emotional buttons which we stick with. I’m not making sense here but I hope you all know what I’m trying to get at. Like my overwhelming one to this scene. For, whatever the back story, I’m just wanting that embrace.
Oh my, the power of this film to make us think! What were those critics thinking? I guess, they weren’t.

LTavares2010 said...

@Jessegirl
You know that my English is not so good (LOL). I used the word "arguments" in the good sense, probably I am wrong, the word "interpretations" or "discussions", as you suggested, is better . And about that embrace... I always thought a good embrace, that is what everyone need, that is what Tyler and Charles would need most. Critics as well. Who knows so they would begin to think?
P.S. If I made you feel sad with the song, sorry. It wasn`t my intention. Hugs.

WhyIstheRumAlwaysGone said...

LTavares, what a beautiful song, thanks for quoting it!

Post a Comment